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 Post subject: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
So I tried experimenting with using hydrogen peroxide to clean my dry seed. So far the results have been fantastic regarding contamination but poor viability. Ive been using a syringe to take up about 2cc of 3% hydrogen peroxide and leaving it for 30 minutes. then insert into flask and stick under a t5 for 12 hours.

anyone else use this technic? how strong do you make the hydrogen peroxide? how long do leave the seed in the hydrogen peroxide?

any help would be great, as id love to perfect this one step technic

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Last edited by ThisSideofParadise on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen with dry seeds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Location: Atlanta, Ga
Do you mean hydrogen peroxide?

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen with dry seeds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:07 pm 
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lol yes, corrected

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Pat from Kingfisher orchids uses peroxide to sterilize his dry seed. He must have good luck with it. He does a lot of pods. I have used it rarely. I hate doing dry seed.

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:52 am 
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Pat's website is were I first saw the technic. I think im following his instructions properly but I must we missing something

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:53 am 
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Im up to 12 seed pods attempted with no viable protocorns

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:58 am 
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I'm not sure. Maybe sow some of the seed green and then let the rest dry out then sow it. See if the green seed germinates but the dry doesn't.

How close to that T5 are you putting the seed? I put mine under T8 for a few hours and then I move it to where it isn't even under light until it germinates. It gets spillover light from the light shelves, but it isn't directly under the lights.

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:50 am 
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Hi - this is an explanation I have read "how to sow dry seeds" (go to "seed germination" - "asymbiotic germination" - "sowing dry seed")

http://www.orchideenvermehrung.at/english/index.htm

- and they also use hydrogen peroxide. Maybe that helps a bit...Unfortunately I don't have experience I could speak from...

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Location: Canyon Country, Ca
Hmmm, that's weird. Hydrogen Peroxide usually does not do any damage to orchid seeds. I use it to disinfect dry seed as well and usually get more germination than I want.

Do you think the seed was fertile? Was it a novelty cross or something more standard? Was 2n or 4n? Some of the novelty crosses have a tough time producing much mature fertile seed. Some of the 2n novelties can really be difficult on that front. 4n phals tend to be more fertile.

Best, Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:42 am 
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Location: Prague, Czech Republic
I use sodium hypochlorite (bleach) 6 per cent. I dilute it 20 times and treat seeds 30 min. Hydrogen peroxide in low concentration is not toxic. Most probable mistake is wrong pH of medium, must be between 5 and 6.


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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:04 am 
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Location: Trento, Italy
Hi,

I used H2O2 quite a few times now, and it worked OK for me both in terms of sterility and viability with Oncidium, Dendrobium, Cattleya, and Ansellia seeds.

The important thing for me is to thoroughly rinse the seeds twice in sterile demineralised water after sterilisation in 3% H2O2 for 10 minutes (I think 30 minutes is too long a time).

I also plan experimenting with peroxyacetic acid+H2O2 at very low concentrations (i.e. like Zerotol).

Silvio

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:30 am 
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Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
TxRobNLA wrote:
Some of the novelty crosses have a tough time producing much mature fertile seed. Some of the 2n novelties can really be difficult on that front. 4n phals tend to be more fertile.

Best, Rob


Rob - I find the available list of 4n parents very helpful, but your note above makes me wonder about something: do you know of a list of 2n parents that tend to be basically reliably difficult to get seed with? I know that many other factors could play on the flasking results, but if we could somehow compose such a list based on just our personal experiences (I realize such a list could get prickly if taken as "Law of the Land" and I suggest nothing of that sort), to be honest...I have a hard enough time as it is deciding what to add to my crowded collection and any piece of "intel" could be most helpful.

Thanks for any comments,
All best,
Walton

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:48 am 
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Hi Walton,

There is really isn't a list like that. It would be rather difficult to put something like that together. If your thinking about different phals to use as stud plants and want to ask about them before you buy them, that's probably the easiest route to take.

The other quick check you can do is look up a hybrid in the RHS database and see how many crosses have been registered with it. That will at least give you some indication of how often it's been successfully used in crosses. It's not going to give you the full picture. but its a good data point.

Best, Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:33 am 
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Location: Floridana Beach, Florida, USA
TxRobNLA wrote:
Hi Walton,
The other quick check you can do is look up a hybrid in the RHS database and see how many crosses have been registered with it. That will at least give you some indication of how often it's been successfully used in crosses. It's not going to give you the full picture. but its a good data point.

Best, Rob


Thanks, Rob. Yep, that's my "protocol" for now. For example, as nice as Mituo Sun King 'Round' is, when I looked it up, the cross was registered in 2012 and in the intervening five years, only one cross has been registered. As widely distributed as the various cultivars of this cross are, seeing only one cross registered from it (I believe in the pod position) gave me pause...I may be missing the bus on this one cultivar, but with such limited space as I have, I do have to make a decision...somehow! (Sorry guys, to unintentionally get off-topic on this thread..)
Walton

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide with dry seeds
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:25 am 
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Location: Canyon Country, Ca
Mituo Sun King is going to be a triploid. It's a 4n X 2n. So that's why it's going to be really difficult to breed with.

-R


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