(817) 754-0465

It is currently Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:33 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:17 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Hi All!

I'm wondering if anyone who has done their own flasking could help me out please.

I currently have a flask done on 03/30/2015 and the protocorms seem to be growing well. Many have tiny hair like roots (?) and the growing point on several are splitting like the beginning of leaves. Several also have little nubs that look like the very beginning of real roots.

So my question to you all would be, at what point do you re-plate from the mother flask?

Best I can do is a drawing that is representative of what I'm seeing, my camera refuses to focus well enough for a clear pic.

As you may have guessed, it's my first time doing this!

Thanks in advance for any help you can give. :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:23 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 5596
Images: 2
Location: Raleigh, NC
I think you would get several different answers and they would all be correct for the person that does it.

Ideally I like to spread out my protocorms and then plant then individually onto final media when they have a couple small leaves, but this takes extra time. A lot of people spread mature protocorms that just have the root hairs on the bottom onto final media, and they don't look at it again until time to deflask.

_________________
Carpe Diem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:19 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Thanks for your input Ben.
I have an additional question now based on your answer. What is considered a mature protocorm? Based on the pic how far do you think these would need to be to be considered mature?

This is the best pic I could come up with. Hope it helps somewhat. :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:00 am 
Offline
Customer

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:43 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Canyon Country, Ca
You can do spreads and replates as often as you want. In most cases it's more about having the time and space to deal with. The protocorms in the photo you posted are definitely large enough to start doing replates. They are spread apart enough that you can probably skip doing a spread and go directly to a regular replace where you give each seedling some room to grow.

Are you using a germination media and then replate media? That will make slight difference on how you want to approach it.

Also is it a species or near primary hybrid or more complex hybrid? Some of the Phal species and near primaries can be really sensitive to the higher sugar levels that are often in replate media at the protocorm stage.

Seedlings go through growth spurts, the first one happens at the protocorm stage and then they can start slowing down as nutrients are depleted in the media. If your using a germination media, that can happen really quickly in your mother flask. If your wanting to keep the seedlings in that fast growth mode, then you have to time your replates so that they get moved to a fresh flask before they start slowing down too much. Timing it correctly can cut 6+ months off the amount of time you have seedlings in flask.

Best, Rob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:47 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Thanks for your answer Rob.

Yes there isn't a ton of seed in there to begin with, only used a tiny bit just in case it failed and I wanted to send the rest out to the lab. Figured sparse was better anyways, that way I could see what was going on in the flask more clearly.

In answer to your questions its speciosa x ( species x complex hybrid) and I used P668 at half strength. I have OSP EX2.0 (Aaron Hicks formula) for replate medium and am wondering if I should do this at half strength as well as I found the P668 to be pretty firm in and of itself. Don't know if that would make a difference. Not sure if I should add anything to the EX2.0 either.

What would you suggest?

Appreciate any and all help!

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:15 pm 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 5596
Images: 2
Location: Raleigh, NC
I'm glad Rob replied as I want to go to bed. Everyone who does flasking does it a little different, and all these methods work just fine. I was going to say basically what he did. My flasks are usually much more crowded, so at this point I'd spread them out. Yours are the perfect size, and they are spread out already, so I agree with Rob that you should be able to sit back and let them develop a leaf or two and then move them to a final media.

For my final media, I use P656 from Phytotech. I also have recipes for P668 using banana and potato. Rob has them as well. I like the P656 because all you add is boiling water and mix. For your final flasks, I would not use half strength media as the nutrients will be used up too quickly.

_________________
Carpe Diem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:01 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Ben and Rob thank you both! Just the kind of input I was hoping for!

Additional question: Generally how long does it take protocorms to grow a leaf or two from the stage their at right now? Just so I know approximately how long I have before replating.

Ben, I have your recipe for final media which you've posted previously so
now I just have to find out what all is in the OSP EX2.0. or make some using the P668 as I have another pkg of that. Then I guess I'll be all set to go! :)

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:22 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 5596
Images: 2
Location: Raleigh, NC
sweetjblue wrote:
Generally how long does it take protocorms to grow a leaf or two from the stage their at right now?

I will defer to Rob as I am usually getting lab work done when I have time and not when it is ready. Often (like right now for example) the work has been ready for months, but I haven't gotten to it. My guess is about 2 months though.

_________________
Carpe Diem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:28 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Thanks Ben, your the best!!! :D You too Rob!! :D

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:43 am 
Offline
Customer

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:43 pm
Posts: 1025
Location: Canyon Country, Ca
Everyone has different preferences on media, I generally suggest play with a couple of different recommended formulas and see what works best for you. I've been using the modified P668 formula for years. There might be better options these days, but it works for me and these days I don't really have time to fiddle around with something that is currently working. ;-) This is what I use:

Mother Media Formula

13.5g/L P668 (Phytotech Orchid Maintenance Media with Charcoal)
5g/L Sugar
3-5g/L Gelling Agent
1L Distilled Water

Replate Media Formula

20g/L P668 (Phytotech Orchid Maintenance Media with Charcoal)
5g/L Sugar
25g/L Banana
50g/L Potato (cooked and mashed)
3-5g/L Gelling Agent
950ml/L Distilled Water

In terms of how long it takes to go from sowing to first replate, it will be different on every cross and your conditions. Different temps, lighting, how vigorous the cross is, etc all impact how fast they grow.

I always prefer a mother flask that is not crammed with seedlings. I find seedlings grow much better when you don't have to do a spread. Even without a spread, I will still do two replates. But I tend to grow my seedlings fairly large in the lab. I'm also not looking for high volume, I'm looking for quality. Even with the bigger greenhouse, space is always an issue. So I usually only produce 40 seedlings of experimental crosses and then anything that is really good I'll remake, self or sib for more seedlings. If I'm fairly certain I have a solid line that will produce all coeruleas, then I'll grow a higher volume out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:15 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Thanks Rob, those are the exact recipes that I have and the Mother formula is the one I used.

I'm currently growing the flasks approximately 12" away under T5s with a temp of 76-80 degrees. To me, at least, they seem to be doing pretty good. In all my searching I found many pics of flasks a few months older, that had protocorms at about the same stage as mine are now from what I could tell.

I guess inadvertantly I did myself a favor by only using a very small amount of the seed I had, and sowing thinly.

I truly appreciate all the help and info you've both provided and hopefully this will help others in the future too.

You've been GREAT!!!!!

Many thanks!!

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:07 am 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:45 am
Posts: 866
Location: Connecticut
Just heard back from Aaron Hicks concerning his OSPEX2.0. Replate Formula.

Posting just in case anyone else was wondering or would like to know.

" Banana, yes- no potato. OspEx 2.0 is very good for replate; it's what we've been using the past 3-4 years or so, and is nutritionally complete."

Rob, Ben, do either of you suggest the addition of potatoe to his formula even though he says its nutritionally complete?

_________________
Judi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What point to replate from mother flask?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:36 pm 
Offline
Customer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 5596
Images: 2
Location: Raleigh, NC
Rob, which gelling agent do you use? I use Phytotech A111, but I'm guessing you don't as 3-5g is not enough of that one.

As far as adding potato to the OSP media, I'm not sure on that. I see it as a long term food source for the seedlings. I feel like without it, your plants will run out of nutrients more quickly. You can always try some with and some without. Maybe Rob has a more definitive opinion.

_________________
Carpe Diem


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group