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 Post subject: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Location: Norfolk, VA
Parent: Phal. Yungho Gelb Canary
(Phal Gelblieber x Phal Princess Kaiulani)

Notable cultivars: 'Joseph Wu', 'Honey', 'Chin Yo'

Ploidy - Diploid (used as both pollen and capsule parent - no clones have been reported to be counted at this time)

Awards:

'Wen Ming' AM 2000
'Shih-Hwa' AM 2007

Progeny (if any):

Joy Spring Canary (x Buena Jewel - pollen) 2002 - a wide variety of color - deep, bright concolor yellow like cultivar 'Japan Peach', mixed of yellow/green pattern influence by micholitzii hybrid with excellent award form 'Joy' AM/AOS, orange/red color like 'Rainbow'.

Ho's Dreamy Jade (x Su-An Cricket - pollen) 1995

Chang Maw Jade (x Yungho Gelblitz - seed) 2002

Joy Dreamy Jade (x Ho's Dreamy Jade - seed) 2003

Progeny results - General

Positive traits

Smells great
Attractive foliage
Really excellent star shaped form if you can get it to open flat
Compact grower
Great color in some progeny
Excellent substance

Negative traits

Flowers tend to cup
Difficult to grow and spike
Slow grower
Short spikes

Progeny results - Specific

1) Vigor/growth
Somewhat difficult to grow.

2) Plant size

3) Leaf size

4) Leaf shape

5) Stem
Short

6) Flower

a) number

b) size

c) color/pattern

d) lip

e) substance
Firm, thick

f) season

g) other

Other factors (ploidy concerns, lineage ambiguity, etc.):

References:


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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 am
Posts: 2675
Location: Norfolk, VA
Here is the first attempt at putting togehter a comprehensive list of Phal breeding parents and thier impact on hybridizing. Please feel free to provide input based on your experiences and knowledge. I hope to be able to fill out the entire 'Worksheet' so we all can learn about specific parents and thier impact on hybridizing.

Let's have fun and learn something at the same time...

Tony B


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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 4943
Location: Asheville, NC
Excellent Tony, this is great. More to come from me!

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Can you add ploidy as one of your characteristics. Then after each cultivar you can put if the ploidy is confirmed or suspect.

Also, don't forget the Chin Yo cultivar which is probably the same as Honey.

Other Progeny are Penang Starbright, Joy Spring Venus

Positive traits
Smells Great!
Attractive foliage as far as orchids go.
Really excellent star shaped form if you can get it to open flat
compact grower
passes on great color to progeny
excellent substance

Negative traits
flowers tend to cup
Sometimes flowers only a mother could love
can be difficult to grow and spike
some cultivars are expensive
slow grower

Image
Joseph Wu- can be much rounder and flatter. I have also seen it cream with green edges

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Hey Tony,

Nice work! I love this type of analysis. If it were me, I'd want to see a table that lists YGC and all of its progeny in the left column and the quantity of awards (HCC, AM, FCC, AQ, CCM, CCE, etc) in the right columns. You can see this type of table in the red breeding articles on my web site. I think the award data is very important in evaluating the breeding potential of a plant. Just my 2 cents. Now a question - Does it pass great color to it's progeny or does it allow the color of its mate to come through? I suspect the later as most YGC cultivars have what I would consider to be weak yellow color, often only at the margins of the flower.

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 am
Posts: 2675
Location: Norfolk, VA
Thank you for the input Eric.

The worksheet is a work in progress, so please send along suggestions, comments or creative criticism. This post is our “test” to better define how we should gather and present the hydridizing information. I will gather up suggestions over the next few weeks and based on the suggestions, create a new version of the worksheet. When we are satisfied with the new version, we can start worksheets for other parents.


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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 am
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Location: Norfolk, VA
EricGoo wrote:
Now a question - Does it pass great color to it's progeny or does it allow the color of its mate to come through? I suspect the later as most YGC cultivars have what I would consider to be weak yellow color, often only at the margins of the flower.


This is the type of discussion that we hoped to generate as part of this process.

We should probably limit the comments made in the Positive/Negative Traits section to observable traits and discuss the mechanisms for creating the traits in another section.

Thanks for your input Eric.


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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:05 am 
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Hi Tony,
Great start and discussions.

Suggestions - I would list each progeny with the other parent. For example,

Joy Spring Canary (x Buena Jewel - pollen)
Ho's Dreamy Jade (x Su-An Cricket - pollen)
Chang Maw Jade (x Yungh Gelblitz - seed)

It's good to note how many times that YGC has been used as seed parent vs pollen parent. This information is noted in Orchidwiz. But a complete worksheet makes it convenient that we don't have to load up Orchidwiz.

I too think that YGC is a great parent that allows the color of its progeny to come through. This plant reminds me of Phal Deventeriana - a pale large yellow that produces many colorful progeny.

Specially, in the area of green hybridizing - we have examples of

Ho's Dreamy Jade (x Su-An Cricket - pollen) - yellow/green color came through
Joy Dreamy Jade (x Ho's Dreamy Jade - seed) - most that I flowered have good green color and form.

And

Joy Spring Canary (x Buena Jewel - pollen) - a wide variety of color - deep, bright concolor yellow like cultivar 'Japan Peach', mixed of yellow/green pattern influence by micholitzii hybrid with excellent award form 'Joy' AM/AOS, orange/red color like 'Rainbow'.

YGC x amboinensis flava - most flowers that we see have strong yellow color than the parent YGC

Re positive and negative traits - it's common to list certain trait in both.

YGC can produced cupped flower depending on culture. Cupped is not desirable. But it's important to note that YGC can produce very flat flower under favorable condition. Combined with its heavy substance, YGC be paired with colorful flower with reflex, weak substance flower to can produce very flat round flower.

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:13 am 
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Because I have used Phal Yungho Gelb Canary 'Joseph Wu' as a pollen parent and yield resonable amount of seeds (have 10 replates) - I would conclude that this cultivar is diploid.

Phal. (Katie Morris x Yungho Gelb Canary 'Joseph Wu)

Phal. (Gemstone Brigadier Star x Phal. Yungho Gelb Canary 'Joseph Wu')

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Location: Kanab, Utah
I noted that Yungho Gelb Canary was listed as "diploid" and "confirmed" because it breeds as both pollen and capsule parent. Actually that would not confirm ploidy as a 4n plant would do the same. I suspect that there are a few clones of Yungho Gelb Canary that are 4n. It would be helpful if you listed ploidy by cultivar and not by grex where possible. Confirmation of ploidy would be by chrmosome analysis although if you have enough breeding data for a specific cultivar and its progeny you can often get a good "idea" of ploidy and that would pass for confimation.
It is also likely that there are progeny of Yungho Gelm Canary x other diploids that have been converted to 4n. Ploidy will have to be by cultivar now since people have been releasing colchicine treated plants without any notation of the fact.
Joseph Wu (and others) has distributed some 4n plants that passed for 2n in the last few years and one should be very careful in deciding ploidy of a specific cultivar based on ancestry.

Dean

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Phal Yungho Gelb Canary 'Joseph Wu' cannot be 4n because if it's 4n, its progeny Phal Joy Spring Canary will be 3n. Because JSC breeds both as pollen and pod parent, JSC is not a 3n.

The other parent of Joy Spring Canary is Buena Jewel 'Joy's alba'. There is a slight possibility that Buena Jewel 'Joy's alba' is 4n. That would make JSC 4n (only if YGC is also 4n).

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:12 pm 
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This plant flowers different every time. This time it had a good bit of green in it, but it doesn't come out so much in the pic. Its thick as cardboard.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:45 am 
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Location: Mt Jackson, Va
Hey Tony, Nice work. Get enough of these sheets made and we can write a program to determine which crosses should be made.

I am unsure what "Ploidy - Diploid (confirmed use as both pollen and capsule parent)" is trying to say. Are we saying the diploid is confirmed or the use as pollen and capsule is confirmed? Actually both types of information would be useful, what is the ploidy and how has the plant been used. For the Ploidy, I would reserve confirmed for plants that have been counted and used hypothesized for ploidy predictions based on breeding habits or ancestry. For confirmed it would be useful to know which cultivars were counted.

Just a warning on hypothesized. Phal Deventeria 'Treva' was used as both pod and capsule and I have raised selfs of it. It is an anuploid.

Pat


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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:05 pm 
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According to Dean, Deventeriana 'Treva' is aneuploid.....but near-tetraploid. So we would expect it to breed both ways.


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 Post subject: Re: First Parent worksheet - Yungho Gelb Canary
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:11 am 
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Aneuploid is also a warning sign.

Dean also pointed out that aneuploids near tetraploids are best only bred to good tetraploids, and that, given time, should eventually become tetraploids. However there is no guarantee of this. Dean also strongly urged that breeding should be done with good ploidy parents only. Since then, I have been very careful of what phalaenopsis I select to buy.

If the prospective parent was good enough, I would make the cross, but only to a tetraploid parent, and never to a diploid or another aneuploid near tetraploid.


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